iCon v dN 07/04/2013

next time on firestorm US we need one of the infantry guys constantly trzing to take C with a spawn beacon or something, not start doing that when we're 50 tickets away from losing. On RU seine we cannot afford to lose C, if they have C it's impossible to push on A with the tank.

We really should have had them 2nd round of Seine but one thing went badly at the start. Infantry pushed A because we thought our armour was pushing it, and the enemy infantry was pulling back and we thought the enemy tank was going down. Enemy pushed back, our armour retreated, infantry got wiped and enemy infantry kept their momentum to take C. Which is a bitch and a half to take back.

From there we were stuck playing catchup all game.

Im sorry for my shitty gameplay on Siene, i feel like i let you guys down on not holding my position and not maintaining a positive KD. I feel really bad about it. I felt like i was dead weight that round bcz a couple of times i felt like i was running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

But not only that, dN RUSHED B flag twice and on the first round they had spawned in may before us. That does play a factor but that does not into my shit performance.

Villain-X- wrote:Im sorry for my shitty gameplay on Siene, i feel like i let you guys down on not holding my position and not maintaining a positive KD. I feel really bad about it. I felt like i was dead weight that round bcz a couple of times i felt like i was running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

But not only that, dN RUSHED B flag twice and on the first round they had spawned in may before us. That does play a factor but that does not into my shit performance.

Them being on B heavy did nothing but make them lose C. Once we got B/D they never got it from us, so we did our job, Villain. Our squad was completely thrown off because we've never really played a full round of Seine like that. I feel like we adjusted well, but not well enough at times. Shit happens and we can only learn from it.


We can't be the best at everything and we have to remember dN is the only infantry to give us a hard time like that. We've beaten every team on every ground map (except pp on metro I believe) so we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves. Obviously we shouldn't accept the loss and be dN's bitch on ground maps. This should make people want to work harder and be the best.

Also, on Bazaar at 6:20 of knights video that's exactly why we need infantry in both sides of B. We can't stack up in one room like we always do it's too easy to wipe. Another thing I noticed was the second our BMP started shooting B we cleared out B instantly, but once again we didn't clear the fucking spawn rooms and their infantry was instantly on B. We will need our BMP to shoot down B every time we try to make a push. We need to make a decision whether to use our IFV to shoot down B, or send one infantry squad to attack their IFV. We can't do this half ass push shit anymore on Bazaar on RU side because teams are getting too good at being defensive. If you notice when we decide to kill their IFV with 2nd infantry squad we wipe it instantly, but we made the mistake of not sending our IFV to their home base with an infantry squad, and let the other infantry squad hold our home base. I don't feel like their infantry is better than ours they just made us make more mistakes.

SnackPack96 wrote:

Villain-X- wrote:Im sorry for my shitty gameplay on Siene, i feel like i let you guys down on not holding my position and not maintaining a positive KD. I feel really bad about it. I felt like i was dead weight that round bcz a couple of times i felt like i was running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

But not only that, dN RUSHED B flag twice and on the first round they had spawned in may before us. That does play a factor but that does not into my shit performance.

Them being on B heavy did nothing but make them lose C. Once we got B/D they never got it from us, so we did our job, Villain. Our squad was completely thrown off because we've never really played a full round of Seine like that. I feel like we adjusted well, but not well enough at times. Shit happens and we can only learn from it.


We can't be the best at everything and we have to remember dN is the only infantry to give us a hard time like that. We've beaten every team on every ground map (except pp on metro I believe) so we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves. Obviously we shouldn't accept the loss and be dN's bitch on ground maps. This should make people want to work harder and be the best.

Also, on Bazaar at 6:20 of knights video that's exactly why we need infantry in both sides of B. We can't stack up in one room like we always do it's too easy to wipe. Another thing I noticed was the second our BMP started shooting B we cleared out B instantly, but once again we didn't clear the fucking spawn rooms and their infantry was instantly on B. We will need our BMP to shoot down B every time we try to make a push.

so what is the problem with the BMP? Is it actually killing us or just suppressing? Maybe we can put a bipod guy somewhere and keep their BMP busy with our LAV since KJ said that when both tanks were shooting B you guys still get wiped on RU.

rasomaso wrote:

SnackPack96 wrote:

Villain-X- wrote:Im sorry for my shitty gameplay on Siene, i feel like i let you guys down on not holding my position and not maintaining a positive KD. I feel really bad about it. I felt like i was dead weight that round bcz a couple of times i felt like i was running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

But not only that, dN RUSHED B flag twice and on the first round they had spawned in may before us. That does play a factor but that does not into my shit performance.

Them being on B heavy did nothing but make them lose C. Once we got B/D they never got it from us, so we did our job, Villain. Our squad was completely thrown off because we've never really played a full round of Seine like that. I feel like we adjusted well, but not well enough at times. Shit happens and we can only learn from it.


We can't be the best at everything and we have to remember dN is the only infantry to give us a hard time like that. We've beaten every team on every ground map (except pp on metro I believe) so we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves. Obviously we shouldn't accept the loss and be dN's bitch on ground maps. This should make people want to work harder and be the best.

Also, on Bazaar at 6:20 of knights video that's exactly why we need infantry in both sides of B. We can't stack up in one room like we always do it's too easy to wipe. Another thing I noticed was the second our BMP started shooting B we cleared out B instantly, but once again we didn't clear the fucking spawn rooms and their infantry was instantly on B. We will need our BMP to shoot down B every time we try to make a push.

so what is the problem with the BMP? Is it actually killing us or just suppressing? Maybe we can put a bipod guy somewhere and keep their BMP busy with our LAV since KJ said that when both tanks were shooting B you guys still get wiped on RU.

It's doing both. We can't get into spawn room, so we're stuck in cats and that kitchen which get pounded by LVG's the entire time and their infantry rush us in cats over and over. When we had our 8 versus their 8 we cleaned them like it was fighting babies, but the main infantry squad was getting wiped so it was mainly my squad on B outnumbered pretty bad at times. We never cleared spawn rooms on B for beacons when we needed to, so I think 2 times it allowed them to squad hop and bomb us on B instantly. On the RU side we wiped them instantly when our BMP was shooting B, but it's too hard to push B when they have 8 guys sitting there with LVG's on every spot you try to take cover and just rush you instantly. On RU keeping their BMP busy is NOT what we need to do. We need to decide to shoot down B with our BMP, or send a 2nd infantry squad with our BMP to take out their IFV. We can't do a half ass push like we kept trying on the RU side. However, on the US side we NEED to stall their BMP with our IFV.

yea i noticed that when kj and me were lighting up the B alley we got hitmarkers like crazy followed by a massive supressionkill assist spree when you guys were able to clear it after!

Also, on Seine the infantry squad on A NEED to cover that whole road with mines. That tank is pushing too easily onto A and it will allow Kj more time. Also, 1-2 of you should spawn with engi and repair tools to support Kj more. I know how vital each of your kits are, but what is more vital is having their tank stalled out with mines and keeping our tank alive. The infantry squad definitely adapted poorly on Seine. On RU side you should have had mines all down B to keep their tank stuck at A and rushed it with Kj all 4 of you using RPG's from eaglebull. My squad had to pick up the slack a lot and defend 2 flags and in doing that we couldn't help you as much with attacking C and I'm pretty sure there was a beacon on C that you guys didn't clear.

Few things Ive noticed from Knight's footage.

In regards to B Flag on Bazaar

#1 - Ive already said this before, IF we are winning the burn. please dont not peek all at once ffs. 1 Person per side.

#2 - If we are going for the wipe on B Flag, dont go one at a time, look at knights stream, look at how everytime snacks squad was wiped, they all pushed at once.

We have to go all at once, keep that rez train going. I swear i saw neb or knights go solo trying to wipe the remaining 2 people off the flag. fail and then the dN squad is back to full strenght and we are back to square one.

#3 When we are USA, that green room wall has to come down ASAP. You can brake it with medpacks, it takes 4 medpack hits to bring it down.

#4 Peeking from green room, prefire that corner everytime, you are bound to get at least 1 kill from spawn room

I mean that "B" flag isnt rocket science.

Thats all for now, i am gonna take a look at sienne later

Great info Snack and Trance.

But i will master that fucking AEK. Ive always had trouble with it. But im starting to figure it out, once i get use to the recoil and bullet spread.

But one thing on the Rez, please dont run out in the middle of ButtFuckEgypt to get the rez knowing the person will get killed off again. I'd rather wait 4 seconds in the spawn menu than 7 or whatever the count is.

iHeartTrance wrote:
#1 - Ive already said this before, IF we are winning the burn. please dont not peek all at once ffs. 1 Person per side.
#2 - If we are going for the wipe on B Flag, dont go one at a time, look at knights stream, look at how everytime snacks squad was wiped, they all pushed at once.
We have to go all at once, keep that rez train going. I swear i saw neb or knights go solo trying to wipe the remaining 2 people off the flag. fail and then the dN squad is back to full strenght and we are back to square one.
I mean that "B" flag isnt rocket science.
Thats all for now, i am gonna take a look at sienne later

Trance, you weren't there, it's easy to say what's wrong when you weren't even in the recent CBs both times against dN. I never tried to go and wipe them them on my own. I actually tried to tell Snack to wait for Mackie's squad to regroup in Rape alley while my squad was regrouping in Nax at some point before pushing all together.

The thing I'm pretty sure about is, those dN dudes each have one assigned defending position once they've captured Bravo, and they really pushed it to the extreme, massive headglitching, which made it really hard for us to cap Bravo again on RU side. I clearly remember the exact same thing from last time, one was carefully peeking from Spawn, one was headglitching behind the white crate near rape alley, one was lying down in the green room/kitchen, one was peeking from cats. We should start using M320 Smoke against them on Bazaar, I'm pretty sure that would work, if the 2 infantry squads push together, we'd be able to take positions in some of B rooms, then kill them all out of their hiding spots.

When B is clear we need to take positions in EVERY single room, every possible headglitch spot, and start peeking at where they'll be coming from.

Well, where can I start?

US firestorm:

We simply failed to get B.

From now on if we fail so hard to get B the infantry need to take C and the tank squad will hold A, with the air squad assisting when/where possible.


US Bazaar:

I'm happy with the fact that we only lost by tickets and not both sides, it shows that we are improving however I still think that both infantry squads need to get themselves personal spots on B so that all flanks and entrances that are likely to be attacked are covered.

We simply lost B too much even on this side of the map, and I don't want to hear the bullshit of oh we only lost B when their tank was shooting down the bazaar because that would be incorrect. Both tanks were firing into B at the start of the round and we still lost B within 3 minutes and were totally wiped by 4 minutes. I notice you guys got flanked through nax's a few times.

The tank and Infantry squad did well to adjust and we got their tank down and capped C within a minute after losing B. The 2nd infantry squad made quite a good push into B and we triple capped them, however the infantry got wiped on C and the people still on B failed to clear their infantry out of the spawn rooms and we lost B again. Then the rest of the match was just a cluster fuck on B and me pissing off their tank.

RU Bazaar:

What a fuck up, AGAIN.

There was only once throughout the round when our infantry had any sort of strong presence on B and was able to cap it for less than 2 minutes.

One of two things need to happen on this side of the map, our infantry need to cap and hold B with my support of me laying down fire on B. However if you guys are failing miserably then 1 squad needs to stay on C, another infantry squad flanks onto the highway and i'll go bus road. Their tank will turn to face me and that is when the squad on the highway needs to wipe his reps and help with the capping of their home flag. Snack's squad did this once and we raped their tank however snack's squad got wiped and they had their entire tank squad + a couple of infantry that had died on B spawn engi onto A making it impossible to cap. If snacks squad was their then we would have got the cap and potentially base raped their tank for the rest of the round.

Infantry need more practice on B though. I will lay down fire when asked/possible as it does really help.


Seine US:

Their B push was fucking insane but i feel we did an OK job of countering it by pushing C. I don't know why but the people on C were very slow at wiping their guys in the shortcut. When we got the AB cap again, we lost A too easily and the infantry simply failed to get it back, i had to take my tank there only to find 3-4 infantry, come on now we lost 50 tickets or so because of that.

When the tank battles were happening on A road the infantry failed to cover the courtyard stairs on a lot of occasions and god knows how many times we lost eagle bull's A side, it was becoming a joke.

However what the infantry was very good at, was reviving my reps, this was very helpful in the tank battles, especially when jettson dropped again only for moeder to join and get the weapon glitch.

The 2nd infantry squad was very good at holding B once we got it and was very helpful in getting their tank down when he pushed B. He got flanked and C4's on a few occasions and when he pushed A you guys wiped people trying to flank my reps through B tunnel.

All squads did a great job bleeding them down to 31 tickets at the end, sad it wasn't enough.


RU seine:

Our A attack failed, since i didn't push hard enough, however i didn't understand why it took snack's squad 1 minute to cap D, that totally threw me off whether i should push A and have the tank battle there with the risk of losing D and being flanked or go back and help keep D and maintain the CD cap.

Infantry lost C which was a major fuck up, some people did great and capped B. A situation like that makes the A push with the tank nearly impossible as their infantry can simply flank through shortcut when i'm on A, and if i'm having a tank battle then I am fucked.


Oh well we will learn from this and improve.


The infantry need to get themselves individual camping spots for once we have the flag so that you guys can easily wipe their next wave; they seemed to be doing this since they had people hiding behind the same cover throughout a lot of the game. Doing this should increase our chances of holding the flag instead of having 5 people cramped into 1 room all peaking the same place and blocking each other in the doors which ends up with them getting double/triple sprays and capping the flag back.

Infantry needs to practice wiping the spawn room, you guys failed pretty hard at doing this on several occasions, allowing them back on the flag.


i will change a few things up so that i can support you guys a lot more.


We need to practice a few things on seine so that people know what to do when the shit hits the fan and things don't go to plan.

Overall we should have won this CB, but silly mistakes cost us it.

Just a random question for Seine.

If you (Kj/armor squad) can't take A because of the flank's because we don't have C, why not try the other way arround? Via Blake street, we had D & B infantry could cover the flanks easly, no?

U_MOEDER wrote:Just a random question for Seine.

If you (Kj/armor squad) can't take A because of the flank's because we don't have C, why not try the other way arround? Via Blake street, we had D & B infantry could cover the flanks easly, no?

It would be very possible however it would depend where the tank battle happened, if it was on blake street then it would be fine as I shouldn't be flanked because our infantry would either be in the B tunnels or at least wiping anyone entering it.

However if he pulled back to A then he would have a huge advantage as they would have infantry in eagle bull's A side (High ground and better cover), if i followed onto A road i would have my back turned to their home base, all it would take is one or two people to spawn there and kill my reps/Rpg me in the back.

That is why losing C in the future is not an option.

Knight wrote:

iHeartTrance wrote:
#1 - Ive already said this before, IF we are winning the burn. please dont not peek all at once ffs. 1 Person per side.
#2 - If we are going for the wipe on B Flag, dont go one at a time, look at knights stream, look at how everytime snacks squad was wiped, they all pushed at once.
We have to go all at once, keep that rez train going. I swear i saw neb or knights go solo trying to wipe the remaining 2 people off the flag. fail and then the dN squad is back to full strenght and we are back to square one.
I mean that "B" flag isnt rocket science.
Thats all for now, i am gonna take a look at sienne later

Trance, you weren't there, it's easy to say what's wrong when you weren't even in the recent CBs both times against dN. I never tried to go and wipe them them on my own. I actually tried to tell Snack to wait for Mackie's squad to regroup in Rape alley while my squad was regrouping in Nax at some point before pushing all together.

The thing I'm pretty sure about is, those dN dudes each have one assigned defending position once they've captured Bravo, and they really pushed it to the extreme, massive headglitching, which made it really hard for us to cap Bravo again on RU side. I clearly remember the exact same thing from last time, one was carefully peeking from Spawn, one was headglitching behind the white crate near rape alley, one was lying down in the green room/kitchen, one was peeking from cats. We should start using M320 Smoke against them on Bazaar, I'm pretty sure that would work, if the 2 infantry squads push together, we'd be able to take positions in some of B rooms, then kill them all out of their hiding spots.

When B is clear we need to take positions in EVERY single room, every possible headglitch spot, and start peeking at where they'll be coming from.

Ive played in plenty of CBs against good teams, i am pretty sure i can tell what is going on even without playing. We make the same mistakes everytime.

I dont agree with smoke, why smoke when you can 320/rubble.

I meant no disrespect, just criticism

Im at home for a few weeks so don't expect any more uploads until I go back to Uni.

On the US side of Seine, dN played their tank smart. By placing it on D and occasionally pushing they forced our tank to be on B. This meant they could easily push 5/6 infantry to A from C and break the 2/3 of our infantry holding it. Against the quality in their team, our infantry can't be expected to win the 2:1 ratio gunfights we usually pull through. Its just not realistic. In the past we have always held A because we had the tank support to scare off the assaults. This is the first time anyone has really forced away our armour and it opened up our defense and left it thin on that side.

kjcenco wrote:

U_MOEDER wrote:Just a random question for Seine.

If you (Kj/armor squad) can't take A because of the flank's because we don't have C, why not try the other way arround? Via Blake street, we had D & B infantry could cover the flanks easly, no?

It would be very possible however it would depend where the tank battle happened, if it was on blake street then it would be fine as I shouldn't be flanked because our infantry would either be in the B tunnels or at least wiping anyone entering it.

However if he pulled back to A then he would have a huge advantage as they would have infantry in eagle bull's A side (High ground and better cover), if i followed onto A road i would have my back turned to their home base, all it would take is one or two people to spawn there and kill my reps/Rpg me in the back.

That is why losing C in the future is not an option.

Sounds clear to me. Didn't think about the pull back to A or the advantage of eagle bull's, infantry know's what to do next time

For Firestorm, we need to sort out who's gonna have the responsibility to grab the transport chopper and go to C next time we're struggling with the B attack (US side). Have we done this when I first said it (about 100 tickets before we actually did it) we could have won the US side. It's simply the most effective way to stop the bleed and get them off bravo. I don't care who's gonna do it, but someone needs to. This was one of the core tactics that we always used and always worked (gotta give credit to smot for this). If we don't do it next time, we WILL lose.

On the topic of firestorm, every time we've played firestorm against a good team the ground feels sluggish at times. I'm not sure if it's just people head glitching in the buildings or what. But there was a time period on US Shitstorm where we had their air down for a good 90 seconds before they re-established, in that time a lot of ground work could of got done and we'd end up with either a quicker win or a much more relaxed game. People definitely need to be make quicker decisions on whether B is worth fighting over at the time. 'Cause infantry vs 3 tanks and their ground squad might not always cut it. Especially if they do what dN did and put a tank inside of a building as well.

When their air was down they'd send the pilots on ground as well for suicide runs onto tanks or infantry and try to get as many kills as possible before their chopper spawned.

Looks like dN was running only 1 tank with a rep, the other two tanks had only 1 guy in.