Re: 12v12 Prized Tournament

by Guest Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:10 pm

If I don't get the pvr I better get the drugs.

by Guest Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:57 pm

Buggsy wrote:
ElitestGamer wrote:I don't think 8v8s are that bad, except for Caspian/Kharg/Firestorm. On the air maps 8v8s are completely retarded but I think most of the maps are actually pretty playable 8v8. However 8v8s don't lend themselves very well to fixed positions, you need people to move about a bit more.

Wait...wait...wait. We're forgetting we have a secret weapon here, these guys beat some decent teams in 6FU during 8v8s.

Lend us your incite

Well in the 8v8s 6FU played we mainly just relied on having stronger gun skill than the other team, we didn't have strats set in stone... but I kind of think you need to play a more mobile reactive game in 8v8 anyway.

Generally I think 8v8 is more about aggressive play. Basically it's much easier for a flanking attacker to quickly kill 2 defenders than to quickly kill 4 defenders. On 12v12 if you kill 2 defenders on a flag then charging forward will probably just mean you get gunned down by defenders #3 and #4, on 8v8 killing 2 defenders on a flag means there's a good chance you've wiped them completely and you're free to take the flag. Also if there's say 3 routes into a flag then it's easy to defend with 4 guys, but very difficult to defend with just 2. And I think 8v8 is a bit more about medic trains than 12v12, 2v2 gunbattles are resolved more quickly than 4v4 gunbattles and it can be difficult for one guy to kill 2-3 guys who're getting revived, but it's easy for 2-3 guys to kill 4-6 guys getting revived. Player density shifts much more quickly on 8v8s, 2 or 3 guys spawning on one player is just a bigger proportion of an 8 man team than of a 12 man team... same goes for players getting killed which is why I think 8v8 is a more mobile game, you need to react to half their team suddenly popping up or exploit their weakness if half their team just got wiped out. 8v8s also depend more on individual skill than 12v12s (which are more about coordination/teamwork). And maybe momentum matters a bit more in 8v8, if a squad gets wiped on 12v12 then the 2 other squads can hold things down until they respawn... but if a squad gets wiped on 8v8 then the other squad is probably doing something else so the downed squad can get stuck spawning in 1 by 1 against a group of enemies.

Only maps I really played 8v8 were Seine, Metro and Bazaar... sometimes with vehicles and sometimes without. Metro and Bazaar play mostly the same way, but effectively each kill is more important. Seine it isn't quite so effective to station guys in buildings just because you have fewer players to split between the flags and the buildings, I also think controlling the C flag becomes more important as it allows you to quickly move guys through the middle of the map and like I said 8v8 is bit more mobile. I also think the quad-cap or triple-cap is a bit more viable in 8v8, largely because aggressive play works a bit better 8v8.

Teams I played were FK, LoD, AoB and maybe ePro. 6FU did play (and beat) QxD 8v8 (or maybe it was 10v10), but I wasn't in that match.

Don't know how much that helps, but there you go.

by Guest Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:41 pm

tell us about the LoD match Very Happy

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:34 am

^ what raso said.

And yea I remember when 6FU beat QxD 8v8.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:26 pm

Hmmm I'll ask pwnage if he minds me showing you the vids for some of them.

For 6FU vs LoD I think we played and lost a 6v6 then played and won an 8v8. But they weren't really playing at full strength in the 8v8. Interestingly a lot of those LoD infantry guys are now ground pounders in dN who are really shaping up to be our biggest competition. I think we played Metro and Bazaar (with no tank, but with jeeps allowed).. so it was mainly just infantry. Thing is I think the infantry fighting has changed a lot since back then because this was back with the slow grenade resupply time and before M320 lvgs. I do think nade spam is a bit less effective with smaller player numbers (though precision M320s on guys in cover are always important) but maybe people hadn't come up with strats like that back then. I also think having a safe spawn option is more important in 8v8s (either from beacons or one guy sitting back), which I guess fits with what I was saying about momentum.

For 6FU vs QxD 8v8 I think QxD committed too many resources to their tank squad. I think the maps were Seine and Tehran and it from what I heard 6FU's tank guy had less reps than QxD's tanker, meaning 6FU had more infantry guys to play around with. Presumably 6FU played a stalling game with the tank rather than a direct fight, not sure though.

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:19 am

Does anybody actually care about this tournament though?

I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y) Wink

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:48 am

Rogey- wrote:Does anybody actually care about this tournament though?

I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y)

Well i do care about both of them bounce

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:20 am

ll---Voltex---ll wrote:
Rogey- wrote:Does anybody actually care about this tournament though?

I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y)

Well i do care about both of them

OH WELL LOOK WHO IT IS

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:45 am

ll---Voltex---ll wrote:
Rogey- wrote:Does anybody actually care about this tournament though?

I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y)

Well i do care about both of them

Don't mean it in a rude way, just kinda mean it like.. is the community over watching this? or is this kinda like every other old FN season? Important build up, important whilst it happens, finishes and nobody cares after 30minutes of hearing who's won?

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:36 pm

Rogey- wrote:
I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y)

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:11 pm

Buggsy wrote:
ll---Voltex---ll wrote:
Rogey- wrote:Does anybody actually care about this tournament though?

I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y)

Well i do care about both of them

OH WELL LOOK WHO IT IS

Yeah is Buggsy

by Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:12 pm

Rogey- wrote:
ll---Voltex---ll wrote:
Rogey- wrote:Does anybody actually care about this tournament though?

I second what Buggsy what said though.. I don't care about the prizes, just as long as they go to iCon.

This tournament would give me a reason to play some cb's too (Y)

Well i do care about both of them

Don't mean it in a rude way, just kinda mean it like.. is the community over watching this? or is this kinda like every other old FN season? Important build up, important whilst it happens, finishes and nobody cares after 30minutes of hearing who's won?

I know what you meant pig

by Guest Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:28 am

rasomaso wrote:tell us about the LoD match

Well when I asked pwnage if I could show you guys the 8v8 videos he didn't like the idea at all. He said he didn't want to give 6FU's strats away, especially not to a team as strong as iCon which is pretty understandable... but it's honestly kinda futile seeing as I came up with half their strats lol. Also from the sounds of things 6FU is hoping to participate in this themselves, by coming in through the Urgent Fury site (which looks dead as hell) and then trying 8v8 for the semi-finals/finals. I don't think that'll really work out for them (in my experience trying to make a comeback rarely works) but it's a better plan than fighting on FN the whole time lol.

Anyway respecting his wishes means no videos (also the 8v8 vid never got uploaded, just the 6v6 one). Still I'll crosspost my comments discussing the matches, I don't think anyone can complain too much about that. There wasn't any topic on the QxD match so there's nothing for me to copy over from there.

I don't think there's really much that's any use in there. I just think the game has changed too much since back then, so how things worked back then doesn't reflected what'll happen now. Also note that this came from 6FU at its least organised so a lot of the time we weren't as bad as these comments will make out but still 6FU as a whole was more dependent on player skill than team organisation.

Match Postmortem = 6FU vs LoD – 6v6 Infantry (10th June)

OperationMetro
Playing as RU side – Lost by a large amount.
Playing as US side – Lost by ~5 tickets.

GrandBazaar
Playing as RU side – Lost by a large amount.
Playing as US side – Lost by 7 tickets.

Metro is LoD’s map these days and frankly we put up a much better fight than any other team I’ve seen (though 6v6 is difficult to compare to 12v12). And GrandBazaar infantry only is basically OpMetro 2.0 anyway.

That said I think they beat us in terms of positioning and organization. They had some very good (i.e. DISGUSTING) spots which made attacking very difficult. Also they really knew when to pull back and when to push forward, which is another thing I think we need to work on. As the match progressed I feel we were getting better at countering them, which is why we did so much better on the second round each time. Either that or they got complacent. In any case it wasn’t enough.

Pwnage said he can upload the vids of these. So we can edit those in when they’re ready.

Match Postmortem = 6FU vs LoD – 8v8 (29th June)

OperationMetro
Playing as RU team - lost by ~39 tickets.
Playing as US team - won by ~130 tickets.

First round we had them and then we threw it away. We took and held B and then lost it stupidly. And what's more we did this TWICE. We weren't explicitly following the plan but not everyone has seen that diagram and I think we still did a good job of taking up positions. We were also generally good about not pushing up too far, but I felt we had a crippling weakness in guys taking the wrong kits - we didn't have TUGs down and we didn't have any ammo available. Twice in the game I was in a strong position then ran completely out of ammo so performed suicide by blind charge... and when I respawned we'd been pushed back and I died too many times trying to retake my former position. Additionally it seems like the comms weren't working properly this first round - I couldn't hear the other squad at all and from the sounds of things they couldn't hear me. I also feel that too many guys went for suicidal revives. And our perk set up could've been better - the guy with sprint should spawn first, then switch sprint out on first death. We seemed to have sprint the whole time when we didn't really need it and I felt frag might've helped us clear them out of elevator wall more easily.

Second round went well. We stacked elevator wall/red stairs and we were able to force them out of position to counter us. We grabbed a few kills, capped the flag and we able so seize the advantage. After we properly kicked them off B there was no coming back and the game was ours.

HOWEVER I don't think we played them at their strongest. Last time in the 6v6 they seemed significantly stronger. Maybe they didn't have time to plan this one out. Maybe they didn't field their best players. Maybe the sun was in their eyes and they all felt ill. In any case I think they'll be even stronger next time so we need to be prepared.

GrandBazaar

Not sure what to take away from this. They said they weren't really playing the first round and honestly I believe them.. because they didn't offer any resistance at all. Second round we lost by a tiny amount of tickets despite being 1 or 2 men down the entire game. I also feel that I performed kinda poorly in the tank.. in that I traded a lot when I should've been winning.

1) Sort out whether we're using vehicles or not before the match is started
2) Sort out vehicle perks before the match is started (me and blackwolf were doubling up on reactive)

Overall I'm inclined to call it a win. LoD is perhaps the highest rated clan when it comes to infantry, and we just beat them at their own game.

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